Classroom B: Alright! Good morning. How's everyone doing?
Ashley Wray: Alright getting by. How are you.
Classroom B: Every everyone's. Everyone's facial expressions, and
Classroom B: there well, as I can see, I share it now, and but by an app we had the exact same
Classroom B: expression and head movements that definitely suggest getting by.
Ashley Wray: Like, so so.
Classroom B: Yeah.
Classroom B: we're almost there.
Classroom B: This is the third last week.
Classroom B: Yeah.
Classroom B: And then that exams.
Classroom B: we'll get there.
Classroom B: Okay, today, we're talking about
Classroom B: the the ways in which our our cognitive processes and performance just sort of naturally fluctuate over time.
Classroom B: So one of the one of the key concepts. That's
Classroom B: that we need to sort of identify. Here is the idea of of a client logical
Classroom B: and and a biological rhythm. There are many forms of biological rhythm. This wasn't very generally a biological rhythm is simply a a pattern in which our basic body processes
Classroom B: change alter fluctuate over time.
Classroom B: I.
Classroom B: And this will. We'll look through a couple of those actually for biological rhythms. Because those biological rhythms reflect changes in, for example, like hormone discretion
Classroom B: different biological and sometimes brain processes. Of course, we would actually expect them to in many cases change or influence the effectiveness of of our cognitive processing.
Classroom B: We're gonna talk about one very clear case where we have very clear, reliable evidence that
Classroom B: that, the biological rhythm does in fact, impact our our vision. We'll look at some of the
Classroom B: practical and social implications especially related around work culture.
Classroom B: And then we'll look at at an example where many people claim that a biological rhythm has an influence on cognitive performance. But that seems to be a bias and a stereotype that is not supported by any vertical evidence.
Classroom B: So the the first biological rhythm that we're discussing is is now a fairly well known concept known as a circadian rhythm.
Classroom B: So this is just referring to the fact that our our bodies go through a cycle of different psychological states and biological states over the course of the typical 24 h day
Classroom B: making sense.
Classroom B: Yeah? And and so we, when we see this, say that this is a reliable systematic biological rhythm. What we mean is that we can like monitor various aspects for biological processes and and
Classroom B: but no reliable predictable changes. You know, starting from the morning when we wake up to as we go through the day into the evening, eventually go to sleep. And behaviorally, that shift between waking and sleeping is like the major characteristic of the basic phases of the Circadian rhythm.
Classroom B: We're just looking at a depiction of it. Now that that looks at some of the just know some of the reliable differences. So very, very early in the morning, starting at midnight. Typically if we're engaging in good health sleep habits. Typically, we will be in a stage of sleep at this point we're at very low body temperature levels. We start to see in Melatonin, and then, starting around 3 Am. We start to see
Classroom B: some some increases in Portugal.
Classroom B: and now the quoted and cortisol for our purposes are going to be sort of kind of the 2 most important primary cognitive or or psychological
Classroom B: chemicals. In this case.
Classroom B: as we go through that as we start to wake up, we get the sort of peak and portal that we'll explore in in more detail, sort of
Classroom B: lower levels of melatonin cortisol levels, spiking up and then eventually gradually decreasing throughout the day. And then, as we, you know, get to the evening as we're hopefully getting ready to go into the stage of sleep we start to see increases in melatonin levels. We start to see cortisol decreasing.
Classroom B: And then we just go through those technical patterns that hardly govern, for the most part its primary functions to govern our consciousness, conscious during the day, sleep during the night.
Classroom B: go.
Classroom B: And this is just something that we rate where we go through in in every 24 h period.
Classroom B: You know something that's that's a relatively old, but I generally always, always interested in finding is that there is something
Classroom B: inheriting devote their cycle.
Classroom B: We can. We can sort of refer to this as a pre running biological something that just naturally occurs on its own. And we know that this is the case by sort of
Classroom B: examining older, somewhat bizarre experiments which I would want to participate where people, participants are isolated in some sort of location for an extended period of time.
Classroom B: And the basic idea here is that it doesn't matter where the location is. The bottom is 2 constraints are met, one, the person has to like have
Classroom B: food and water, and all the things that survive and comfortable and things like that.
Classroom B: And then the other is that they're the the
Classroom B: most important methodological point is that there are no external cues to take effect.
Classroom B: So you can do this. I think it's often done in sort of like caves that have been adapted to be liveable, you know, abandoned bunkers that have been adapted to be liveable. Anything where you can isolate yourself from an actually occurring cycle of the sun.
Classroom B: If you do that over an extended period of time.
Classroom B: If you imagine yourself as a participant in in that bizarre, undesirable experiment, at least in my view.
Classroom B: what happens to your biological rhythm. What's your typical day look like.
Classroom B: or your typical cycle of waking and sleeping.
Annie Lewis: It goes at sink a bit.
Classroom B: It goes out of sync a bit. Can you expand on what you mean?
Classroom B: You are muted again.
Annie Lewis: Sorry, hey? About little clock kind of loses track of the cycle in terms of the 24 h cycle, and it kind of goes from 24 HI think, to 24 point
Annie Lewis: 5 or 7.
Classroom B: Yeah, on average. So so I mean, we, you know, because it's on average, because there's gonna be some individual variation probably precise enough to just say, slightly over 24.
Classroom B: So, Eddie, you're you're you're definitely like, technically correct that it goes like slightly higher than typical 24 h block. But I would probably look at it on the sort of opposite side of that, and say,
Classroom B: without those external queues, it's still pretty close to 24 h slightly higher, but I mean on average less than a half hour off.
Classroom B: So that that does suggest that there is something internal or something we call an adoptionist queue to the circadian rhythm. It's not exactly 24 h, but it's very close. So there's something biological about us as a system.
Classroom B: That's that is meant to on a free running cycle
Classroom B: work on an approximately 24 h day, just slightly higher.
Classroom B: Now, the fact that no. So our our typical day and night cycle. So we distinct from our wake and sleep cycle. The initial Night Cycle was, of course.
Classroom B: or consistently 24 h. It's the way that the amount of sunlight and time during the day
Classroom B: is across seasons, but
Classroom B: centering around 24 h, we tend to stick to that cycle. And this is a process known as entrainment.
Classroom B: And what I suggest is that that free running, you know, 24.3
Classroom B: hour
Classroom B: rhythm can be altered slightly.
Classroom B: Not not like there. There are constraints to that. Like it would it would be.
Classroom B: It will not be. We will see when we talk with some practical applications, and it's very disruptive if you change that rhythm too much.
Classroom B: But it can be changed. And and when we talk about this process of entrainment.
Classroom B: What we're discussing is syncing up sort of build on Nanny's language of it, becoming sort of out of sync syncing up that free running algorithm with some now exogenous or external key.
Classroom B: and of course, for
Classroom B: likely, for evolutionary and adaptive reasons. We, we sync up or entrain that inherent biological clock to our typical X cycle, so that we're awake and alert, conscious. When the sun is out we are asleep, pressing, unconscious when the sign is not out.
Classroom B: is, of course, would have likely given us some sort of evolutionary advantage, just.
Classroom B: you know, just by virtue of the very simple fact that we're not terribly effective in the dark. It's very well in the dark
Classroom B: animals, the out in the dark
Classroom B: dangerous because noternal creditors. So, being somewhere safe, hidden away, unconscious, not doing anything
Classroom B: seems like a potentially
Classroom B: beneficial evolutionary annotation
Classroom B: double.
Classroom B: If it's the case that we can take this free running biological rhythm and and train it to an external queue. There are some sort of biological process in the brain that allows that to happen. Does anybody want to take a shot at briefly explaining, what happens in the brain to allow that entrance to our 24 h day cycle.
Annie Lewis: I can't quite remember, but I know it's to do with
Annie Lewis: the secretion of cortisol.
Annie Lewis: yeah, I thought I can remember, but I can't. It's too early.
Classroom B: So we could. I think we could all work together to start to piece this together. I'm just getting a whiteboard ready, and for some reason it has to open up a million windows. Just give me a moment.
Classroom B: Got something in the chat.
Classroom B: Yeah, Jared, also not that's one of the pieces. We'll start to please all this together, neurons and the Scn. Okay, we're starting to get some pieces. I'll get this whiteboard shared.
Classroom B: Yeah. So starting, starting with with with any suggestions and just building on that a bit. So we identified that the 2 sort of most important chemicals for our purposes that fluctuate throughout the rhythm are cortisol and and melatonin
Classroom B: cortisol when it's released, it's typically like it's typically characterized as the primary stress hormone which is partially true. We, we observe high levels of cortisol release and expression. When we're experiencing stress
Classroom B: long term over expression of cortisol tends to do undesirable things to our body, which is why the chronic stress, or or long term stress, tends to have a wide variety of negative physical outcomes. But it's also just generally associated in lower levels with just
Classroom B: high levels of arousal wakefulness consciousness. Basically, when we're awake. You know, we're in doing things, because this is partially the result of the expression. Of course, all
Classroom B: the opposite melatonin is associated with sleepiness low arousal unconsciousness. It's being. It's, you know, with what's often being released at early stages to allow us to now shift to that that process of of the length of sleep.
Classroom B: Now, of course, we. We have some natural fluctuation in this, as as demonstrated by that free, running
Classroom B: circadian rhythm.
Classroom B: And
Classroom B: that is that is generally regulated
Classroom B: by by A Terry in the brain, called the hypothalamic tuitaria adrenal axis, usually just shortened to feed
Classroom B: the a axis.
Classroom B: and this is essentially like a a hormone controlled system in the brain that partially governs, that that fluctuation, that sort of inverse fluctuation of cortisol and melatonin, typically as cortisol comes up. Melatonin comes down
Classroom B: vice versa.
Classroom B: Now
Classroom B: Darren brought in the other part of this
Classroom B: the super archaismatic nucleus. And while this is not something that directly controls that that process of wakefulness and sleep, or controls the release of cortisol and melatonin it can do so through its influence on the HP. Access and the Scn is what allows that process of of changing or in training that naturally occurring pre-running rhythm.
Classroom B: And and the reason that this happened is the the super charismatic nucleus over
Classroom B: thinking our sort of neural anatomy language here supra meaning above. And and
Classroom B: Kai isn't part of this as we're going through the opt in case.
Classroom B: So in an area where where the you know the visual stream of processing kind of crosses over to different sides of brain. So it's right above that.
Classroom B: This is important, because the Scn also receives information from eyes, which means it changes its activity based on whether or not you're exposed to sufficient light.
Classroom B: Now, what happens
Classroom B: when the Scn is exposed to bright light? It has 2 primary effects. It's going to inhibit the release of melatonin. So it's going to prevent the release of Melatonin. That is what you increase the release of cortsole.
Classroom B: And then, when it's when it's not receiving bright light, it's going to do in the opposite, that inhibition will go away. That activate cortisol will go away. So instead, we start to see. So when the Scn is active when we are exposed to bright light, such as from sun. Then it's going to mediate that fluctuation of cortisol and melatonin through
Classroom B: access.
Classroom B: So because of that response to light. The Scn sort of allows that that constraint and that that entrainment of our naturally occurring slightly higher than 24 h rhythm to a more precise 24 h, so that it's in sync
Classroom B: with the cycle of day event.
Classroom B: This effect is is actually, it's particularly large. Immediately after waking. So the the biggest spike that we see in response to light in cortisol happens right after you. You've woken up from a long period. Sleep something over the the cortisol, the lightning response, and then the the influence of the Scn. On on cortisol kind of declines through.
Ashley Wray: There a major difference between natural and artificial light or light from your phone and light from the sun? First thing when you wake up like, how does that impact
Ashley Wray: cortisol production.
Classroom B: To my knowledge, it doesn't really have much of an impact.
Classroom B: And this this has.
Classroom B: When we start to dig into this for faculty applications. We'll see that this has
Classroom B: looking at it can have positive benefits in some cases, and it more typically has has negative benefits. So, for example, of like.
Classroom B: Aye.
Classroom B: you know, if you're in scenarios. For example.
Classroom B: always like, for
Classroom B: that was
Classroom B: so. There's requirements to talk there.
Classroom B: sleep and it with. That's that goal
Classroom B: cycle. We'll also see, you guys, that
Classroom B: by controlling artificial light you can get rid of some of the gifts associated with with shift work. Well, I would. I shouldn't say, get rid of. You could
Classroom B: reduce some of those negative impacts. The phone thing is always a tricky one, and the phone one always comes up and
Classroom B: it is well demonstrated that it's probably healthy for your own sleep habits to not use your phone immediately before going to sleep. A lot of people
Classroom B: try to sort of PIN that on the pipe coming from the phone. It's more so that the behaviors are engaging into activity during your phone.
Ashley Wray: Make, sense.
Classroom B: All those ad
Classroom B: all those little social media dopamine hits don't necessarily help with your sleep
Classroom B: that make sense.
Ashley Wray: Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you.
Classroom B: Other thoughts on that other questions.
Classroom B: No, Jared, I, I'm not aware of any evidence that your Rakestones are are improving your court. So I,
Classroom B: unfortunately.
Classroom B: Why is this stupid message coming on here?
Classroom B: So
Classroom B: given? That's our our circadian rhythm. And since we are trained Circadian rhythm
Classroom B: have this pretty substantial influence on on different chemicals that are, remember, the cortisol melatonin are largely having their influence in the brain. So given that we have these fluctuations. We would generally actually expect some impact on that brain functioning act on on the cognitive performance in different ways. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna just track some of the
Classroom B: for reliable findings that demonstrate the ways in which are part of the performance itself starts to fluctuate throughout a typical 24 h day.
Classroom B: And we do definitely see differences. The first one that we might as well focus on. Given that, we're probably experiencing it right now, because this is an early morning class. Immediately after waking. We experience something known as sleep inertia.
Classroom B: What is sleep? Inertia?
Annie Lewis: Isn't it? Excuse me, impairment and performance. After post, immediate waking.
Classroom B: Yeah, exactly. It's a. It's like this sort of like, general relatively uniform decline in harder performance for a short period of time after waking the exact period of time
Classroom B: likely differs from person to person. It likely differs based on how well you slept, and I don't think this is, I don't think this is really noted much in the chapter, but it's got to be very strongly influenced. By which stage of sleep you woken from. So, for example, if you, if you wake up, if if you wake up and feel like really tired sense of of what's happening, you are likely woke it up from stage of deep sleep.
Classroom B: If you woke up and you are relatively energetic and remember dreaming, then probably woke up from rem sleep.
Classroom B: I.
Classroom B: And then, of course, the the estimate is just also varying from study to study because of the relative character
Classroom B: across people, so it can last anywhere from a couple of minutes
Classroom B: to typically the sort of upper limit for most people is around a half hour but some studies have have shown reliable cognitive performance deficits up to 4 h after waking up.
Classroom B: And it's likely it's like we somewhere. It's likely some middle ground in there, you know. It's it's it was unlikely that there's some like threshold where you suddenly get a half hour. It's UN good, probably.
Classroom B: any of that cognitive performance back over time, I would say that's might be consistent with a one of ours.
Ashley Wray: Does. Our dependency on stimulants like caffeine has something to do with that as well. In the case where it's
Ashley Wray: shown 4 h later.
Classroom B: It's possible. I I haven't dug into the the specific details of that. That study that did show up to 4 h.
Classroom B: certainly sleep. Inertia will be exacerbated in somebody who does regularly. Pick talk.
Classroom B: Don't get chance to drink coffee
Classroom B: but you know, as we as we saw last week as a lot of that person gets to have a cup of coffee that those withdrawals tend to go away.
Classroom B: But yeah, certainly without without coffee for something as a regular cough breaker that that sleep inertia or or cognitive impairment after waking is
Classroom B: likely going to be more severe and likely longer.
Ashley Wray: Makes sense, and then with Melatonin, if you were to supplement with Melatonin in the evenings, does that disregulate your ability to naturally produce
Ashley Wray: melatonin.
Classroom B: That's
Classroom B: that's kind. That's a more research is needed a kind of scenario. There's certainly a concern about that. So there's certainly a concern about long term melatonin use, and whether that does start to
Classroom B: disregulate our our natural cycles of melatonin. But it's one of those things that, like some some studies will find that it does. Some will find that it doesn't.
Classroom B: It's it's, you know. It's sort of a controversy. At this point.
Ashley Wray: Okay. Thank you.
Classroom B: Now other sleep games like
Classroom B: more more serious Barbizon rules, they say, definitely, have that fall. That's why they're
Classroom B: like your Saturn prescription.
Classroom B: sweet medications, they are only ever
Classroom B: prescribed at least one sort of thing.
Classroom B: Doctors all make mistakes.
Classroom B: They should only be prescribed for short periods of time.
Classroom B: otherwise you develop very strong dependence.
Classroom B: and like generally generally, that sleep inertia process, or that that dip performance, we have to wake it.
Classroom B: It's
Classroom B: for most of us it's
Classroom B: it's annoying.
Classroom B: especially if you have an 8 30 class, and you're not necessarily a morning person, and you're, you know, expected to
Classroom B: answer my stupid questions and and discuss sometimes complex concepts much earlier that would like but again, pardon me, it's an annoying like in our in most people's daily life is gonna cause things like a website. I forgot to
Classroom B: boil the water before I pour it into the coffee whoops
Classroom B: rather than anything that's like, you know, serious consequence. But there, there are
Classroom B: scenarios. There are specific context and situations in which this phenomenon of sleep inertia becomes much more problematic, and the specific types of cases outlined in the chapter are cases such as somebody who's like an On call emergency sponsor.
Classroom B: So somebody this, you know, say, somebody like a
Classroom B: paramedic who might be on call, who, you know, is on call throughout the evening
Classroom B: Who might be asleep and then suddenly be called to wake up, and immediately we spring into action and do something like give people medical agreement.
Classroom B: That's where things become more problematic right? Because now, all of a sudden the
Classroom B: consequences of decrease cognitive performance, if they
Classroom B: 2 errors is suddenly much more cool.
Classroom B: This is, you know, further compounded by the fact that
Classroom B: the the magnitude of a sleep inertia effect is typically that typically found to be
Classroom B: the greatest. If somebody is woken up from from their sort of typical period of sleep within their circadian rhythm, which is exactly
Classroom B: where exactly the contacts are identified as pretty problematic. Where somebody gets a call at midnight, one in the morning something like that. And you know, as a result of that, they're experiencing like substantial cognitive impairments. And they're asked to do things that
Classroom B: you know, evolve people's lives.
Classroom B: So it's a problem caught in the research can lead to some potential solutions. What are some recommendations based on your reading of the chapter for people who are in that type of like on call situation, who have a spring to action after waking up.
Annie Lewis: People in healthcare.
Classroom B: Sorry. That was a little Little Fuzzy on, on.
Annie Lewis: People in healthcare.
Classroom B: Oh, yeah, sorry, though. So the question is, what can? So, for example, somebody who is in health care, who isn't.
Annie Lewis: All of.
Classroom B: Auditor. What are some things that they could do? To reduce that inertia effect?
Annie Lewis: Frequent napping
Annie Lewis: when they can.
Annie Lewis: I believe.
Classroom B: Yeah, that so frequent mapping tends to help more for the more so for the long term consequences of shift work. This is more of that sort of like temporary what we might call an acute effect where it's like immediately after waking up.
Classroom B: Even if you're not typically working shift work like if you, if you.
Classroom B: we are getting your good normal
Classroom B: 8 h, sleep. If you're in a scenario where you might be called to act in immediately after waking up, you get that temporary decrease in performance. So it's more like as they wake up. What can they do to
Classroom B: reduce that impairment?
Classroom B: But you're correct. We'll talk about the the napping recommendation when we talk about shipwork.
Ashley Wray: Expose themselves to natural sunlight.
Classroom B: I mean ideally, but that doesn't really work. If they get called at midnight.
Annie Lewis: I would say coffee cause that's just a general.
Annie Lewis: Pick me up, but I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's just something about something about in the text, but.
Classroom B: Yeah, and we'll we'll talk about both those. So yeah, coffee will get to in a moment. Actually, you, your recommendation still can be done in some way. Given that
Classroom B: artificial bright light will have a at least a comparable effect. So that's something that seems like a clear recommendation that as somebody wakes up. They, you know, one of the first things they do should be to basically turn on all the all the bright lights they have
Classroom B: just to sort of like jump. Start that that waking process
Classroom B: in a in a you know, if they get woken up in, you know the early morning and the sun is coming up. Then yeah, go assign, get the get the natural sunlight.
Classroom B: But given the practical constraints that's not always possible.
Classroom B: Andy, suggesting coffee and and yeah, and yeah, Jared saying, no caffeine as well.
Classroom B: I.
Classroom B: And again, so that you're you're correct, that the there is research suggesting that coffee will reduce the impact of sleep inertia. But
Classroom B: remember that with all of that caffeine research last week we identified one really critical problem.
Classroom B: that that sort of muddies. The inclusion we can draw about the effectiveness of using caffeine to increase cocktail performance.
Classroom B: Does anyone remember what that critical problem was?
Ashley Wray: I don't remember, but I can take a guess that it's the crash associated.
Classroom B: That's not the. This is more like a
Classroom B: that that could potentially be a problem like, especially if the person that has to. You know the effects of caffeine in our relative short lived. And then you're going to get that that crease so that that you're correct. That could be a problem if the person has to spring into action and then
Classroom B: perform for a long period of time.
Classroom B: But what we talked about last week was more of from a scientific perspective or research perspective.
Classroom B: the methodological issues with concluding that app can improve cognitive performance.
Classroom B: Yeah. And Jared's identifying another issue, not not the one we talked about last week, but another methodological issue that we haven't examined a lot of benefits specific. The context of
Classroom B: I'll call emergency responders. That's not really something.
Classroom B: Search very easily.
Classroom B: But the the main issue that we identified is that there's a this major debate as to whether caffeine itself directly improves cognitive performance, or whether it improves cognitive performance because it reduces withdrawal symptoms.
Classroom B: So if somebody right where we drink is coffee, and then. Yes, it should still make sure they have a cup of coffee upon responding. But that's not necessarily going to help for somebody who doesn't right where we could.
Classroom B: It was just a caveat
Classroom B: on that projection. So good idea.
Classroom B: And they should like we, you know, we have to also make sure that we think about the pure practical constraints that somebody who's an on call responder probably also wants to make sure that they have cost essentially ready to go
Classroom B: so that they don't have to spend time making coffee.
Classroom B: You don't want to do like a
Classroom B: can, grind slow, pour over.
Ashley Wray: Suggesting their body temperature.
Ashley Wray: a potential solution, like taking a shower
Ashley Wray: like a cold shower.
Classroom B: I mean, yeah, that's that's a good speculation. And it's it's all directly hasn't directly been addressed in any any clear
Classroom B: I research, unless I unless I'm missing something, Jared saying that's mentioned in the textbook
Classroom B: the other one of the other suggestions in the textbook. This I I think we can sort of lump in with that suggestion because of the it allows us to explain the
Classroom B: I identify or examine some of the just like
Classroom B: trouble. Troublesome practical constraints a cold shower is not too bad, because it doesn't necessarily take all that long one of the other recommendations is one way you can reduce, rely, reduce sleep. Inertia is that one of the first things you do wake up is just some way exercise
Classroom B: great. Those all work.
Ashley Wray: Eating as well.
Classroom B: Sorry.
Ashley Wray: Eating.
Classroom B: And those are all really good things to reduce sleep inertia as a normal person.
Classroom B: But if you're an on call or emergency responder when you get called. I started.
Classroom B: There's no have a shower do. 10 min of exercise.
Classroom B: Breakfast.
Ashley Wray: I don't talk on motivation, but I don't really understand how you can.
Ashley Wray: I don't know, Lester. Some motivation first thing in the morning.
Classroom B: Yeah. So the the motivation point in the textbook is, is
Classroom B: speculative. More than anything. The idea is that
Classroom B: the idea is that this is less of a concern that we might think because, the on call emergency responder is going to wake up and have this like sort of like spike in cortisol and spike and arousal as a result of like the high motivation
Classroom B: produced by the context and situation.
Classroom B: And so that's a speculation. But that would again need to actually be supported by empirical research rather than just saying, Well, it's not a problem.
Classroom B: So therefore you don't need to do anything about it.
Classroom B: And there's like, I mean, there's like we, something to. It is like that. You wake up in an emergency situation. You are going to get like spike of a recommended spike. Of course, all
Classroom B: you're gonna get that Hpa access activity.
Classroom B: But that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not also going to be experiencing some of the cognitive Arabs associated with sleeping or chat.
Classroom B: So the biggest reason might be the biggest, easiest thing just because of those very rapid fire capital constraints
Classroom B: I've
Classroom B: the bright, light thing is easy enough.
Classroom B: or caffeine. You can make sure you have, like an iced coffee available in in the fridge.
Classroom B: I would just grab it go.
Classroom B: Any other thoughts, questions on that.
Classroom B: No, Jared. The question was just whether anybody has any other thoughts on on the whole, sleep internation concept.
Classroom B: And the and the question we had been discussing is, what are some practical recommendations
Classroom B: for people such as you know on call emergency responders to basically call back the the process of sleep inertia.
Classroom B: We've covered a fairly wide range. So just want to make sure that nobody has anything else to add.
Classroom B: Okay, well, that's that's just immediately after waking. We still have, you know, a
Classroom B: wide range of of our typical 24 h day and night cycle to cover. We're typically not terribly concerned with when we should be sleeping the very short research there is that
Classroom B: when it's very late at night and we should be sleeping. Typically our moderate performance is not so great, but that's compounded or confused or made more complex by the fact that that also we use it for, like just, you know, wait for a while.
Classroom B: So one of the difficult methodological issues here is distinguishing between cause. Their performance be influenced by the actual biological fluctuations in cortisol and melatonin versus. Just.
Classroom B: But outside of that just initial waiting. We just also experience like ebbs and flows of awareness and cognitive ability throughout the day.
Classroom B: And this immediately gets money up by
Classroom B: by the fact that there's a significant variation across people as opposed to the individual.
Classroom B: What we might refer to as as chronotypes. The you know, each person is going to vary to some degree on when they sort of have peak levels of different chemicals. And as a result, peak levels of various types of clock performance.
Classroom B: And and this becomes confusing from a research perspective, because most studies will show that most people are going to sort of hit peak cognitive performance around
Classroom B: midday.
Classroom B: So sort of, you know, going into the the early afternoon
Classroom B: just intuitively, who here feels like they hit their peak performance at around between like noon and one.
Ashley Wray: I feel like usually around 2 Pm.
Classroom B: Does anyone experience? I feel like they experience peak performance at a different time.
Ashley Wray: For physical activity. Sometimes later in the day.
Ashley Wray: like
Ashley Wray: 5 Pm. Usually is when.
Classroom B: Yeah, and that. And that's consistent with some of the some of the typical biological rhythms that we experience. People sort of like have, for example, like peak muscle performance around at 5 Pm. Area.
Ashley Wray: I've also heard that it's more beneficial to work out when your cortisol is high. So when you wake up is which like which one
Ashley Wray: would be more beneficial. I guess it's dependent on the individual.
Classroom B: Yeah, and and the the individual component. And yeah, so Jared, I'm not. I'm not gonna lie. I was. I was waiting for a response from
Classroom B: from you, because I I get the impression that you tend to hit your performance much, much later. The the concept of some being a night owl.
Classroom B: or the concept of somebody being an early bird, that some people like are are much better, or experience much better cognitive performance in the morning, and then start to fizzle out in the evening, are at low performances in the
Classroom B: morning, and then start to get better in the evening.
Classroom B: and of course, the the morning people that's that's after that period of of sleep inertia which
Classroom B: possibly is shorter for people that tend to experience high positive performance in the morning.
Classroom B: So again, I'm writing this as a methodological interview. Because, if we think just very basic statistics. So nothing complicated, just the concept of calculating an average. If you take 2 distinct groups of people.
Classroom B: one group has peak performance in the morning, and one group has peak performance in the evening, and then you average.
Classroom B: They're the time that they have peak performance. What are you gonna get
Classroom B: middle of the day
Classroom B: right?
Classroom B: And they're going to be a third group that does, in fact, have have P performance in the middle of the day. So the the key point here is that it's it's not uniformly true
Classroom B: that people experience peak performance in the middle of the day. It varies from person to person their individual differences.
Classroom B: There are some studies in in this area that that account for that fact. There are many that don't so the grain of salt that I wanna make sure we're we're we're taking all this with is that we're we're gonna go through some.
Classroom B: you know, some research findings that demonstrate changes in particular types of cognitive performance throughout the day.
Classroom B: just noting that it likely varies from person to person. And more careful research would likely identify that rather than it being tied to a particular type time of day. Different types of product and performance are likely going to on an individual level correspond to
Classroom B: the the characteristic biological changes, such as shape as a Corso and melatonin, which themselves will vary from person to person.
Classroom B: But as as a caveat, that's important.
Classroom B: So
Classroom B: just a couple of examples of of cognitive tasks or activities that tend to change throughout the day. We, for example, just like even basic like motor task performance. So just like motor coordination and being able to do physical movement based activities that.
Classroom B: That type of performance fluctuates throughout the day.
Classroom B: Our attention fluctuates throughout the day our working memory performance fluctuates throughout the day. And what ties these 3 things together? Really hitting on this individual difference? Level is their strongest correlation is body temperature.
Classroom B: So we tend to experience boosts in working memory in some forms of attention and and in voter performance.
Classroom B: When depending on the person whenever we're at our sort of like peaks of water temperature, wherever that ends up, being in the day for you as a person.
Classroom B: we know that different types of memory fluctuate throughout the day. The the strongest evidence supports the fact that what we refer to as as declarative
Classroom B: and specifically episodic memories, our ability to form and retain those memories fluctuates throughout the day, you know. But when we're at a sort of like peak cortisol level as that tends to be
Classroom B: a bit better. Does that? Does everybody remember what I mean when I say something like episodic memory?
Classroom B: Yeah, very briefly, just this new, specifically memory for like specific events
Classroom B: and experiences.
Classroom B: There's some research demonstrating. That's the reason this happens is that when we experience high levels of cortisol. This actually temporarily changes. How much our neurons are able to change, so that this process of neuroplasticity.
Classroom B: the the ability of our neural connections to change and adapt, based on learning, experience, limited evidence, but but suggestive evidence that increased levels of cortisol
Classroom B: make their odds for it. It makes it easier for them to change and and adaptive
Classroom B: this process known as executive function. So it's like basic, like, inventory control allocating cognitive resources, focusing on on different tasks on average, tends to be best at night, and fairly, reliably, and first in the morning.
Classroom B: And then there's some things that actually don't seem to be all that influence. So one specific attentional process known as vigilant.
Classroom B: which is just our ability to maintain focus on on a particular task
Classroom B: tends to be relatively stable throughout the day. Notwithstanding cases where you are experiencing high levels of
Classroom B: so so this is, this is one of those, again, one of those tricky issues where our vigilance does decrease over time throughout the day. But the question is, is this a result of
Classroom B: actual situations in our circadian rhythm? Or is this just the result of.
Classroom B: and seems to be that you only really see declines and vigilance? If somebody's been up for a long period of time, regardless of of what time of day you're testing them.
Classroom B: So we have this
Classroom B: fairly complicated
Classroom B: set of of cognitive fluctuations throughout the day. It's complicated in the sense that the particular cognitive task
Classroom B: that that's either impaired or or boosted through the day
Classroom B: those those impairments and boosts happen at different times. It's further complicated by the fact that those patterns differ from person to person.
Classroom B: So just like I, I'm you know, kind of curious about the the thoughts and recommendations you had in your in your reading responses, or any thoughts that you're you're having as we're having discussion.
Classroom B: what are some implications for the way that we typically expect people to go about their day.
Classroom B: So you know, most, you know, like
Classroom B: many, many jobs, especially office jobs are gonna have consistent times that the people start and end. We typically have most of our classes concentrated within a low sort of constraint, period of time. We expect people to be active and productive at some times, and and have lower expectations than others.
Classroom B: Does that make sense or based on what we're talking about? Are there different ways that we could expect people to work study things like that?
Classroom B: What are some things that we could potentially suggest changing about our general work culture based on the information we've been discussing so far.
Ashley Wray: Starting the day later.
Classroom B: Okay, so Ashley suggested, is starting, starting the day later. I think most of us would probably be okay if if we didn't have 30 classes. What are what are some thoughts on on Ashley's recommendation? So start on just in general. Just shift the day later
Classroom B: for that idea. I guess that idea. What are? What are some of the benefits we see of of starting the day later.
Classroom B: There's a sort of like mobile shift.
Ashley Wray: You have more time to
Ashley Wray: have a healthy routine in the morning.
Classroom B: Yeah, I mean, that certainly does seem to be a potential benefit. So like we, you know.
Classroom B: it's
Classroom B: the general expectation right now is that? Well, if you want to have a big routine in the morning, we just have to wake up earlier. But that's typically not consistent with what we know about our biological rhythms. If we're, you know, we're expecting people to wake up at 5, 36, something like that. In order to get a good routine in and then start their day and be productive. Say, starting 8.
Classroom B: I've
Classroom B: you're requiring people to wake up in a at a time where it's very unlikely that they're
Classroom B: body is naturally at a high level of performance.
Classroom B: So if you ship that over, allow people to have that routine that you're going to allow people to work through that period of sleep inertia, which means that when they are actually expected to be productive they'll be more productive and more importantly, happier.
Classroom B: Yeah, so my suggestion is that if you start the day later, would you also have to end the day later? And yeah, and and depending on how late it go was that could potentially just shift
Classroom B: issue to other end of cycle. Right? So if you're now having people
Classroom B: work until
Classroom B: a time where they've already started to experience reliable, cognitive dips. Then that's a problem, too.
Classroom B: Not but this is this is getting to a more, you know, like
Classroom B: sociological debate. But then the the question could be, well, we actually
Classroom B: dip.
Classroom B: do both, or maybe to shorten the work day.
Classroom B: A lot of research does. Ingest, as I'm sure many of you know, that shorter work days and shorter work be exactly resulted on higher productivity.
Classroom B: And this is this is certainly a major conversation that's been going on for a long time, especially in the context of things like Junior high High School, right? Because we also know that one of the more reliable differences happens across the lifespan.
Classroom B: where in adolescence people's clocks shift more and more towards the evening, on average. Which means that when you're bringing high school students into I think 30 class.
Classroom B: if it's if it's somewhat tough for us there.
Classroom B: they're not even remotely at performance.
Classroom B: So the suggestion as well is like we should shift the typical school day
Classroom B: much later to allow students to learn at their at what's likely going to be their peak cognitive performance
Classroom B: generally. That hasn't happened, but it's been in discussion for quite some time.
Classroom B: But we also have this this wide individual variation just from person to person.
Classroom B: Would that not suggest that we should also even further reevaluate our our work culture? And
Classroom B: have staggered workadays?
Classroom B: Yeah. And and so those prefer but but also like in terms of
Classroom B: so we always have to think of like there's there's just well being and happiness, which is, which is obviously important. But in terms of
Classroom B: getting
Classroom B: agencies, institutions, workplaces to shift. You're gonna have to frame it in terms of productivity. That's how that's how you're gonna convince and persuade. So yeah, what they prefer, but also to to accommodate when they are best able to work and be productive.
Classroom B: That was a complexity is, you need to decide like when they have any specific
Classroom B: be difficult to do for a for a class, unless it's, you know an asynchronous class
Classroom B: that argue that they're they're at least ideas that should be explored.
Classroom B: Gripment.
Classroom B: yeah. And and like, just so
Classroom B: I am.
Classroom B: So I like I'm even incumbent perspective from a perspective where I'm not terrible. In the mornings I can. I could generally get up and do things. So this is even coming from a personal preference, but there is certainly, in my view, a bit of a
Classroom B: morning person bias on on a social level.
Classroom B: That we are. We are much more accommodating of people who
Classroom B: aren't active in the evening and much more accommodating than people who are active in.
Classroom B: I was just checking basic noise. Bywas, it would it pay?
Classroom B: So there! There are times when you're not allowed to make substantial amounts of noise. Then it would know what those timeframes are in Winnipeg, reported the Municipal Bible House.
Ashley Wray: Can I guess? 9 Pm. And
Ashley Wray: 7 Am.
Classroom B: You're dead on.
Ashley Wray: Oh, Luce!
Classroom B: It shows a little bit weekends and weekends and holidays! The
Classroom B: morning
Classroom B: period shifts from 7 to 9, but just that that. So? 7 Am. So not before 7 Am. And not after 9 Pm. That's very much accommodating. Morning. Right? So if you imagine that you're
Classroom B: Jared, who who is identifying that they are
Classroom B: much more of an evening person.
Classroom B: my wife is definitely a keeping person, and not a morning person at all. That means that somebody can, for example, start renovating their house at 7 in the morning.
Classroom B: when based on individual variation in Circadian rhythms, people are, should most likely still be sleeping.
Classroom B: so that there is, I think, a bit of a bias! Towards
Classroom B: morning, Beck.
Classroom B: Thanks for sharing, sharing some thoughts there some some good and interesting ideas here the the other practical applications that I wanna discuss or we start discussing, or we take a break, are the the 2 major scenarios that we experience as as modern humans. That's that are most likely to disrupt that. And when we talk about disrupting. We go back to anything which is sort of like.
Classroom B: There are things that happen in in modern human culture that can take that internal which is typically synced up or entrained to the day and night cycle. And
Classroom B: take those 2 things apart.
Classroom B: desynchronize them so they're no longer tied to each other.
Classroom B: What are those 2 things? The 2 most common ways that are
Classroom B: Circadian rhythm is desynchronized.
Ashley Wray: Exposure to our devices.
Ashley Wray: Later in the day.
Classroom B: Yeah, I mean, that's that's not what I had in mind, but that certainly would be one yeah, we're in if we're in a scenario where we're engaging in, as you know, especially people who engage in sleep procrastination and familiar with that concept.
Classroom B: Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's exactly what it sounds like. And it's just like psychotic. The the motivations aren't supported. Oh, yeah, people who like people are experiencing sleepiness. They probably should just go to sleep, but instead decide to other activities, such as
Classroom B: presenting going on different devices. Or I also watching television
Classroom B: like that.
Classroom B: And then the I mean the primary vote of mentioned again, based on
Classroom B: potentially sort of over extended work culture in which pinning for the primary motivation
Classroom B: that people report for it. Typically for fascination is just like
Classroom B: I haven't had any free time today.
Classroom B: So rather than sleep, I'm going to
Classroom B: do what I want.
Classroom B: Yeah. So that's I mean? Actually, you're you're absolutely correct. So that that would likely lead to disruption of that rhythm because you're exposing yourself to
Classroom B: artificial lights. When that that extends well beyond the typical day phase of the date night cycle
Classroom B: and and does not
Classroom B: much you can do about that. Aside from
Classroom B: provide education, provide information and and do what you can to sort of nudge people into
Classroom B: not doing that
Classroom B: which is, you know, we we have some some. There are some efforts where people are encouraged not to use devices after a certain time
Classroom B: doesn't often result in in behavioral occasions.
Classroom B: So I'll I'll clarify. What are the 2 just to constrain right? A little bit. What are the 2 primary
Classroom B: ways that that our rhythm is desynchronized that are identified in the next book?
Classroom B: Yeah, my, my is exactly correct. Jet lag and and ship work 2 scenarios where we can often get. This is, I guess we can characterize this as like even a more substantial synchronization compared to something like Ashley's suggestion of of device use and what I mean, severe or substantial. I just mean that it?
Classroom B: The amount of desecration is is much higher
Classroom B: sort of just to like, just look at the the amount of desynchronization
Classroom B: organization you could get, so that leg occurs as a result of essentially air travel over time zones.
Classroom B: So you know, we're just looking at different examples of time zones here. And it's specifically air travel, because air travel allows us to cross multiple time zones within a very short period of time.
Classroom B: So you know, if we if we imagine traveling from, you know, like.
Classroom B: you know, let's let's say,
Classroom B: London to Auckland.
Classroom B: What's going to happen to our Circadian rhythm.
Ashley Wray: Might it be backwards.
Classroom B: Okay, so it's gonna be backwards. Give me just expand a bit on on what you mean.
Ashley Wray: So
Ashley Wray: It'll take a while to adjust.
Classroom B: Yeah, it's gonna take a while to adjust. So if we're yeah, we're if we're focusing sort of on the actual experience of jet lag. And
Classroom B: I know that
Classroom B: at least some of us you know, based on my understanding of your your background. Prior to Booth, you definitely experience jet lag at least once. Some of you. Anyone here
Classroom B: not experience jet lag.
Classroom B: not really. Oh.
Classroom B: well, that's
Classroom B: that's fortunate for you.
Classroom B: Okay.
Classroom B: yeah. So am I saying that no, not really cause it only ever really goes like an hour or backwards. And yeah, we were expecting is, of course, so like jetway the general experience. You're generally more going to be like their sleep, you guys disrupted. They won't be able to sleep in appropriate times and we'll we'll know. And, of course, are there like
Classroom B: very uniform cognitive impairment. When somebody did a statement of jet laying, basically all cognitive functioning tips that go down.
Classroom B: and of course, that that experience of jet lag and the effects of jet lag will
Classroom B: larger as a function of of how many time zones you cross.
Classroom B: and it also changes depending on on which direction you're traveling. So so traveling east usually results
Classroom B: more substantial. Generally, we're traveling west
Classroom B: just because of the sort of time direction that you're changing.
Classroom B: So I'm actually saying you have to. You have to adjust. Let's just be a bit more precise if we're talking about
Classroom B: process of desynchronizing
Classroom B: your
Classroom B: Circadian written over, you can sort of think of his, of your internal Circadian clock.
Classroom B: What? What do I mean like, what do you think I mean by desynchronizing that call
Classroom B: in the context of jet lag.
Ashley Wray: I wouldn't know how to properly explain it, but I experienced it like, I think, for the first time last year.
Ashley Wray: I went to Italy, and I thought I was unfazed by it the first day. But then the second day I woke up at 2 Am. And I couldn't get back to sleep and
Ashley Wray: I felt it for a couple of days after. So maybe it's just kind of forcing yourself to
Ashley Wray: be awake during those
Ashley Wray: times of optimal daylight and
Ashley Wray: working through that.
Classroom B: Yeah. So
Classroom B: you, what you're saying is exactly right. So if we're if we're getting so getting to this sort of what's actually happening in this process of these incrementation. And the basic idea that when you cross a time zone because that that you know, that process of travel doesn't take terribly long your internal Circadian clock. Is not that far off from when you left?
Classroom B: But suddenly all of the external queues are, where in your destination are inconsistent with where you currently are their internal rhythm.
Classroom B: So it's like you can imagine a scenario where you you leave in the evening for a relatively short flight across across different time zones. Your Circadian rhythm is getting ready to like wind down. Go to sleep here at low cortisol high melatonin but the external queues of of the day and night cycle suddenly it's mid morning.
Classroom B: So you get this. That's what I mean by this desynchronization of the of the student, for example.
Classroom B: so that we've taken that process of entrainment and effect
Classroom B: removed, that that close kitchen.
Classroom B: And so what what Ashley's been identifying is, well, what are some things
Classroom B: to to deal with jet wag? And as a regular person exactly what actually is identifying as kind of the the
Classroom B: the approach that most people take. You just have to, you know. Eventually, you just have to sort of get used to it. You have to sort of often. One of the typical recommendations is to force yourself to to get onto the same wake and sleep cycle consistent with the destination that you're in. So it's like, you know, you know, you might plan somewhere mid morning, I think right? Go to sleep. But typically, the right way to do is just force yourself to go about your day and then go to sleep.
Classroom B: start to
Classroom B: re synchronize. And that makes perfect sense, because for just the occasional tab where
Classroom B: it's it's kind of like that sleep inertia process or phenomenon same concept where it's like as just the occasional crowd where
Classroom B: causes and consequences are generally just kind of an annoyance for the day.
Classroom B: It's frustrating, it's it's annoying. But the actual severity of practical consequences is fairly minimal.
Classroom B: But again, there is a very particular group of of workers for which that is not the case.
Classroom B: Anybody who works on plans. So some pilots air crew, attendance.
Classroom B: These are people who are constantly crossing time zones.
Classroom B: Is this part of their dog?
Classroom B: So this is a process where, unlike occasional travel. Where you get this, you know, temporary desynchronization, which then resolves itself. And it's not something that happens all that often even someone who travels frequently for for and recreation you know, isn't isn't hopping on a plane every single day or every couple of days.
Classroom B: So it's you know, it's it's short lived. It's infrequent so we're not terribly concerned about any sort of long term, consequ. But for people who are experiencing jet lag because they're crossing time zone as part of their just regular employment activities.
Classroom B: Then we start to have concerns about long term consequences.
Classroom B: So the I mean the the acute consequences is that they're likely going to be people who are responsible for the process of keeping the plane and air, making sure that it lands take leave
Classroom B: are are often in sort of temporary states of
Classroom B: cognitive dips. As a result of that, that definitely process the long term consequences. There has been some examination of long term consequences. For example, comparing
Classroom B: cognitive processes in flight attendance compared to
Classroom B: enroll participants who don't work
Classroom B: Asian industry, and and we seem to have some potential evidence of, for example, long term memory decline.
Classroom B: That's again, that's
Classroom B: limited research. But again suggesting that there are some pretty serious long-term consequences to constantly donating taxes.
Classroom B: And yeah, Darren's mentioning, this is this daylight savings system.
Classroom B: So you know.
Classroom B: in most places in Canada some provinces have done away with it. Yeah, we we
Classroom B: we shift that clock over
Classroom B: twice a year.
Classroom B: you know. I've I've noted before, possibly in this class, but definitely in other classes, that a very reliable statistical phenomenon is that
Classroom B: bundes
Classroom B: after we lose that hour of sleep, you consistently every single year's spike collapse of it.
Classroom B: like we reflect the evening
Classroom B: cognitive performance impairments that results from losing that sleep.
Classroom B: And before we take a break, the the other major and much more common
Classroom B: disruption or desynchronization, as what I was mentioning is this idea of ship work? And and very specifically focused on. When people are required to work overnight.
Classroom B: And and of course, that if we're thinking about this process of synchronization, this is basically the strongest desecration possible, right? So we were typically entrained to be awake and alert and and energetic and active when the sun is out and be sleep, you know, sleepy, unconscious, resting when the sun is down.
Classroom B: And by working night shifts you completely reverse that process.
Classroom B: And remember that when when we are identifying, we identified this process of entrainment is that entrainment suggests that you can change that naturally occurring pre-running cycle. But to an extent.
Classroom B: And and when we look at people who regularly work night shifts we see like just substantial
Classroom B: changes in in both biological and auditor processes.
Classroom B: So we we get, we get pattern we get patterns from
Classroom B: result in sort of
Classroom B: I
Classroom B: weird, somewhat unpredictable shifts in the way that melatonin and cortisol are expressed
Classroom B: the the size of that cortical cortisol awakening response decreases when people have been regularly working night shifts.
Classroom B: We get this sort of elevated level of cortisol when people are are shift to a new rotation. So we're completely messing with this typical fluctuations in in those chemicals. And again, we see both in the short term and in the long term
Classroom B: fairly uniform cognitive impairment to essentially every cognitive task.
Classroom B: And again.
Classroom B: I,
Classroom B: you know, given that that the types of scenarios in which we tend to require night shift work are things that typically have high stakes, things like healthcare. You know, healthcare is a scenario where, like you have to have some sort of night shift work.
Classroom B: When somebody's in a hospital. You can't just
Classroom B: shut the hospital down overnight. They still need care. So you need people to do this.
Classroom B: but it comes with cognitive performance impairments. It comes with a series of long term health issues. So what I'd like to do is take a 15 min break. Come back at 10
Classroom B: and then both for jet lag and and shift work, just brainstorm and and share thoughts on
Classroom B: sort of recommendations and things that can be done to mitigate both the short term and long-term effects of both jet, lag and work
Classroom B: gently, specifically for aviation workers. It shouldn't work for just anybody
Classroom B: regularly has to work night chips
Classroom B: that make sense
Classroom B: quick. Let's take 15. Come back at 10,
Classroom B: hey?
Classroom B: So
Classroom B: we're just gonna sort of as a as a group. We're just gonna brainstorm and of course, send
Classroom B: relevant points from your reading response that you that you want to share. That's, of course, created. Well, so just a reminder that the the 2
Classroom B: practical context we're examining our short and long term cognitive consequences of regular aviation work in the context of that way. And regular night chip work. Often in the context of
Classroom B: healthcare. And in in each context, just trying to identify and brainstorm some just general recommendation
Classroom B: for for what can be done to to reduce or prevent those short term and long term consequences. Some shifts in the way that things are typically done that would likely be beneficial
Classroom B: to start as off. Annie had earlier mentioned sort of regular, frequent mapping, and that's something that can be done like as a recommendation to individual people who
Classroom B: the work, night shifts or or work and
Classroom B: aviation industry. And yeah, there has been a research showing that
Classroom B: taking time to have have
Classroom B: frequents relatively short naps throughout the day does start to reduce some of those those, those cognitive dips that we see as a result.
Classroom B: that's something that we can. We can identify on a on a person by person level that can be beneficial.
Classroom B: What are some other things that we could? What are some other recommended.
Ashley Wray: Having sufficient lighting in these work settings.
Classroom B: Okay? So yeah. So we'll get it exported in a second via was identifying a point as well
Ashley Wray: So little.
Ashley Wray: The the microphone.
Classroom B: Wasn't picking, picking up so the deal was, was,
Classroom B: yeah, this is identified in the technical of my idea was to have aviation workers.
Classroom B: prior to a shift where they're going to go through multiple time zone, start to adjust their cycle to the the destination.
Classroom B: People remember talking about reading about that in the chapter.
Classroom B: Yeah. And and that will work like if you sort of if you gradually, if you're making sure that you're gradually shifting to the what's going to end up being the appropriate external cycle that you're on. Then, all of a sudden, you're you're reducing or eliminating that that desynchronization so that could work. I'm interested in people's thoughts on the
Classroom B: practical feasibility of that. What are some practical barriers that might make that difficult to do.
Classroom B: It's like the lack of time to do so
Classroom B: if this line
Classroom B: from one type, one to the other.
Classroom B: Yeah. So what am I saying is like they're just like it's just in the time required to do that in order to like, you know, as actually was saying, you need time to adjust to to different time zones. And you could, man, you can do it preemptively as long as you. You have the time to do that before engaging in a a large international flight or something like that. And then the second point I was making well, like typically you. Then, also, I feel like you don't just get flowed to a destination as a pilot or a flight attendant. Then you'll just
Classroom B: stay there for a week.
Classroom B: you, and go on other flights and have to keep working. So it's it's like
Classroom B: it would work, and it's been appearably shown to be beneficial. It just the practical constraints make it such that that's not necessarily the the best option.
Classroom B: Ashley was saying. Sufficient lighting, can you just expand like which context are you talking about, or is it both, and and how would sufficient lighting work.
Ashley Wray: Specifically in healthcare settings, having bright lighting that'll stimulate
Ashley Wray: that wakes
Ashley Wray: cycle.
Classroom B: Yeah, exactly. So that's that's another major recommendation. And this is something where I think,
Classroom B: but there, yeah, there, there's some reason to. There there are. This is something that actually can potentially be done. It does have its own practical constraints. So it's kind of like 2 sides of of what needs to be done. So the issue is that you have this desynchronization between.
Classroom B: When you're required to stay awake, and then when you're required to sleep and the naturally occurring day and night might keep. So what you can do as Ashley is recommending is, you know, during that night, Chip, make sure there's good bright, sufficient lighting to sort of simulate.
Classroom B: That's, you know, simulate sunlight in a way that's going to engage and activate the stack
Classroom B: so that you're you're getting those train.
Classroom B: The other side of that is, when the person is not working. They're you know. They're wherever they're living, whether they're renting a place, or they they own a residence they need to be equipped with the necessary equipment to also now simulate nighttime during the day things like good, effective blackout curtain
Classroom B: things like that.
Classroom B: So you and you need both sides of that. It's it's not. It's not going to work. If you're just like constantly.
Classroom B: I've I've
Classroom B: you know, in in a period of exposure to bright light, whether through artificial light or and then, while you're asleep daytime sunlight.
Classroom B: Now, if we're thinking about that, especially within, like a healthcare like a hospital scenario, there are some
Classroom B: just
Classroom B: constraints and and and practical issues that need to be considered. One of them is that typically the the patients in a hospital probably don't want to
Classroom B: be exposed to bright lights.
Classroom B: So it's gonna be a bit of a constraint where there have to be specific, you'd have to just organize things with their specific areas in which healthcare workers can have access the right light in a way that also doesn't now suddenly cause the sick problem for patients that healthcare set.
Classroom B: really. But we should be getting lots of regist things like that
Classroom B: do nothing's ever easy.
Classroom B: Unfortunately.
Classroom B: what are some other thoughts? Just free speculation, brainstorming any ideas around.
Annie Lewis: How about chronobiic drugs?
Classroom B: Yeah, so you have these these chronobiotic drugs. So these these different drugs that are being tested on the market as a sort of a a pharmaceutical intervention that can sort of.
Classroom B: you know, shift biological rhythms around so that they're more in sync with what what's required to be done and there is certainly a lot of exciting and interesting research on that.
Classroom B: of course, like, it's the the constraints around that and the practical considerations are just the same
Classroom B: practical considerations that need to be,
Classroom B: you know, examined with any pharmaceutical intervention, you know, like
Classroom B: what are what are long-term effects. What are potential negative side effects.
Classroom B: things like that.
Classroom B: So it's it's something very promising for the for the future. But it's just it's like in an area that's still being researched and still need some exact issue.
Ashley Wray: Forward rotation. So, having this shift schedules
Ashley Wray: alternating.
Classroom B: Yeah, so yeah, for a, and that's directly discussed in the textbook. For in in the context of shift work, that it's, you know, like, how like, how should
Classroom B: should work and actually work? And and generally recommendations are that periods of of night work should be
Classroom B: relative shorts
Classroom B: they should ideally frequent, which requires rotating through staff.
Classroom B: so that no one, person or and or no group of people is sort of consistently working.
Classroom B: Guests.
Classroom B: because it's it's especially the like. The chronic issues
Classroom B: and then long term consequences are are often the most problematic in these in these settings.
Classroom B: Just reading through some of Jaren's comments here.
Classroom B: Yeah, so Jared Darren's hitting on one of the the same points, and although it's not directly discussed in the textbook, I mean, you'd want to have these types of scheduling considerations
Classroom B: in.
Classroom B: you know, like commercial flight as well. Right? I mean so like you wouldn't. You wouldn't. You would want to make sure that you're not
Classroom B: setting up.
Classroom B: you know, schedules and and shifts such that pilots and flight attendants are like consistently over extended periods of time just going on long international flights that require shipping across multiple time zones
Classroom B: ideally try to rotate through, so that, you know, after following a long national flight. You have a period of shorter flights that don't require that constant shift in in time zone. So we thought substantial.
Classroom B: you know, as mine was identified just going an hour back and forth.
Classroom B: Not not really much of an impact.
Classroom B: So like, you know, pushing, that's that scheduling consideration further
Classroom B: and then, and then I'll address Jared's point. That just pop up chat
Classroom B: I mean
Classroom B: when feasible ideally shifts and and flight scheduling should be
Classroom B: set up, so that if it's as long as it's not like a super long international fight ideally, you should be organizing people's flights so that they
Classroom B: end their workday
Classroom B: where they started.
Classroom B: Course, that's that's not feasible, for like a large like overseas flight, because
Classroom B: 12 to 16 h lights that's that's a long enough shift person should probably stop working at that point.
Classroom B: but even that you could just give them a seat on a plane home and let them sleep.
Classroom B: Okay. So, Jared, yeah, I'm not really familiar with what you're talking about in the chat about people using hitting HP Meds to correct the sleep cycles. And
Classroom B: I'm
Classroom B: and what I what I can say about 88 medications. So standard. Stivins, such as like mental candidates more common, that was brilliant, and things like that is that
Classroom B: they are
Classroom B: very beneficial.
Classroom B: If you have Adhd
Classroom B: and if you don't they tend to have nothing but negative consequences and and that that finding is so reliable that one of the Mo. One of the easiest ways to determine whether somebody actually has any is whether it be medicines help
Classroom B: if they help, they probably have a
Classroom B: if they don't help, they probably don't.
Classroom B: Now.
Classroom B: the other thing I can say is that
Classroom B: again, I'm not familiar, necessarily familiar with the application of it to correcting sleeve cycles adhd meds are also, very frequently complete.
Classroom B: and most commonly by like
Classroom B: students in law school, medical school students who real pressures to
Classroom B: work and study around the clock, and they'll often find ways to
Classroom B: get prescription adhd medications without
Classroom B: without a prescription, without a diagnosis or anything like that. That are all kind of the most common one where people
Classroom B: so it needs that or all to stay up automatic spend.
Classroom B: Of course, that's as you can imagine, comes with a series of both psychological and physical health problems.
Classroom B: So that's not a good idea. Don't just pop people full of of heavy stimulants. Caffeine? Probably not the worst, you know. Probably not the the worst thing you can possibly do.
Classroom B: But yeah, using
Classroom B: using heavier stimulants, such as they need to keep anything there.
Classroom B: Probably not the best idea.
Classroom B: which is why, going back to Annie's point about these. These newer medications examine, determining whether they are safe in in the long term determining the the risk of various side effects is is sort of the critical step, for that becomes more more widely applied
Classroom B: if that ends up being the the correct route.
Classroom B: even with with commercial flight, even like the design of airports, probably isn't great
Classroom B: for for those employees, right? So the guy who was saying, like, Well, good, sufficient bright lighting for night shift workers. But we're also identifying that the flip side of that is, when they are supposed to be asleep as the opposite so ideally for flight attendants, pilots anyone who's going through those time zone shifts you would want to make it such that an airport can provide a supportive environment depending on where they are supposed to be within that circuit rhythm.
Classroom B: That's often not the case. Right? I can get to an airport date bunch of glass. So you're you're kind of
Classroom B: constraint to whatever is currently happening, based on the the time of day.
Classroom B: But being able to provide places and airports where where air crew can
Classroom B: go through that that light control, and that that adjustment would probably be something beneficial.
Classroom B: So lots of really good ideas
Classroom B: lots of things that could be done. Of course the the trick, as as always, is actually getting.
Classroom B: You know.
Classroom B: getting getting uptake and and getting interest in some of these solutions.
Classroom B: And and that's why I'm sort of saying that even though it's
Classroom B: not necessarily the most
Classroom B: positive way I,
Classroom B: I often refer to these types of things as kind of gross conversation we're talking about like making people more productive and things like that. But that's that's how it would likely need to be framed to actually get these bigger sort of infrastructure based recommendations to.
Classroom B: you know, unfortunately unlikely to get employers to
Classroom B: take these ideas all that seriously by framing it in terms of well-being. You can probably get people to
Classroom B: get get more uptake on those ideas by trying to get in terms of increased productivity, fewer errors, things like that.
Classroom B: Maybe I'd be cynical, but at least that's my view.
Classroom B: Other thoughts, ideas
Classroom B: obviously not mandatory to share. But is anyone ever ever had to work. Like just
Classroom B: good. I'm glad.
Classroom B: Darren, okay. It works you all all the time that sucks.
Classroom B: I'm sorry
Classroom B: any other thoughts or questions on Circadian rhythms.
Classroom B: taking a bit of a deep dive into into their importance in in cognitive performance.
Classroom B: So in in the remaining time that we have was a shift over to some some other types of of biological cycles. So there, we've been identifying specifically our 24 h circadian cycle. When
Classroom B: in in other classes. When I talk more more in depth about things like the various stages of sleep, you know, with that that very clearly demonstrates that there are cycles that are that are shorter than the the 24 h, or taking it rhythm. So you know, over a night sleep. You go to a sort of very regular about like
Classroom B: minutes cycle that rotates through different stages of sleep. We also have biological rhythms and and fluctuations in various biological processes and expansion on the 24 h period.
Classroom B: And so, for example.
Classroom B: typical human males go through at the level of 4 moments kind of a weird, like annual sort of seasonal fluctuation. So you know, on average testosterone levels will be lower during spring, and then sort of have a bit of a peak during the fall.
Classroom B: representing a very long term, annual shift.
Classroom B: And typically the types of
Classroom B: the types of beyond 24 algorithms, as we talked about are focused on on what I know is the good old.
Classroom B: So the the basic sex hormones which are most primarily discussed in terms of testosterone and and estrogen. The sex hormones are not limited to those hormones, but those are the 2
Classroom B: primary ones that are that are most well concerned.
Classroom B: So we have those those annual shifts and testosterone for for typical males. But
Classroom B: that's of course not. Not typically where where people's research and interest live. So what we're gonna focus on now is the much more well researched, of course, as you're probably able to from the textbook. Extremely controversial and extremely
Classroom B: rapidly informed by by my myths. More than research cycle is the the typical female manual cycle.
Classroom B: you know. On average last thing doesn't
Classroom B: 28 to 32 days, but with very substantial variation, both between different females and within
Classroom B: same female
Classroom B: over over time. I'm being in case you're
Classroom B: curious about like the the sort of
Classroom B: somewhat odd language of of using emails instead of women here, I'm just. I'm just being mindful of the fact that there are people who
Classroom B: go through menstrual cycles who would not necessarily identify as the woman.
Classroom B: So.
Classroom B: using the terminology, we may also stick it to a biological level at this point.
Classroom B: There we go.
Classroom B: It's sort of like Circadian rhythms. We'll just just briefly go over some of the the basic dialogue processes. So
Classroom B: the at its core, the the typical menstrual cycle is largely governed by a other sort of hormone controlling area brain. It has similar name to the access hypophonic, pituitary ovarian, the Hpo axis and again, it plays a similar function in the sense that it helps to regulate the sort of fluctuations in release and expression
Classroom B: of different hormones. So we're just looking at a very simplified depiction of that that cycle here. So the the basic idea here is just identifying some of the acronyms on here. Gm, Hr. Stands for gonadotropin, releasing hormone.
Classroom B: The hypothalamus releases Gn. RH.
Classroom B: G. On our H. Then acts off the pituitary gland to simulate the release of FH. Which has all called simulating hormone
Classroom B: which then stimulates the the ovarian system to increase release of of oestrogen.
Classroom B: And then, you know. So that's that's the part of the cycle where we're increasing the release of those typical female sex hormones.
Classroom B: as those levels rise, the levels of of those sort of precursor hormones
Classroom B: start to fall.
Classroom B: Which which then starts to bring us down to the the other side of that cycle.
Classroom B: And this, just, you know, happens within that on average 28 to 32 day cycle, acknowledging the substantial beer
Classroom B: within that average timeframe.
Classroom B: So again, we're in. We're in a scenario where we have this
Classroom B: somewhat regular fluctuation in in various hormones and various brain chemicals which we might use reasonably expect to have some sort of impact on performance.
Classroom B: But as I'm sure we've gathered from reading the chapter this point is much more controversial than it is for circadian rhythms. It's we have very clear, reliable, converging evidence that circadian rhythms do have notable systematic impact on our cognitive performance. The exact nature of of those influences is debated but the fact that for the claim or statement that our circadian rhythms is
Classroom B: fairly undeniable.
Classroom B: And the research for the typical female menstrual cycle not so clear.
Classroom B: So
Classroom B: just. To get some terminology here, we're going to start by identifying some of the
Classroom B: methodological issues and essentially like aspects of bad research
Classroom B: that have sort of historically plagued research on the the cognitive
Classroom B: the way that you know a menstrual cycle phases influence cognition one of the one of the first methodological issues is just that there's often shift and disagreement about how to even define the phases
Classroom B: of of the typical Mexico cycle
Classroom B: and the the sort of most current framework, and as a result of frameworks that we're going to be adopting and exploring some of this research. Is actually just a a 2 phase framework.
Classroom B: And then those those 2 phases sort of encompass some of the the older phases that that people have had historically examined. So we have the follicular phase which.
Classroom B: based on the old classification. This would also encompass the
Classroom B: menstrual phase itself as well as occupation.
Classroom B: And then we have the lunar phase which also encompasses the the phase, the older phase. That's sort of like the primary controversy in this research, the prevents for phase.
Classroom B: So just doesn't have the terminology. That's what we're identifying. And it's because
Classroom B: those 2 phases are distinguished primarily on the basis of the relative concentration of different hormones and different brain chemicals. That's the main motivation. For why? From a cognitive research perspective, we we use that to phase distinction.
Classroom B: the the context, of course, of course, matters. So, for example, if your context instead, is identifying. Fertility for the purpose of trying
Classroom B: child. Then then, obviously be more precise and focusing on
Classroom B: you know the population phases is more important.
Classroom B: But for our context as talking to researchers, that 2 phase addiction is probably the better idea.
Classroom B: Okay, so methodological issues. So putting cards on the table. The major controversy here, and what I'm identifying as the
Classroom B: myths just to, you know, sort of spoil. The ending is that they're just simply like the the general perspective. Like I said. In fact, the general perspective historically, has been that
Classroom B: the typical female will experience cognitive impairment and cognitive performance declines specifically during the pre-medural phase of the menstrual cycle.
Classroom B: That's historically been the perspective. And there's been a lot of research aim at demonstrating that point
Classroom B: spoiling the ending. There's just no reliable evidence supporting that point.
Classroom B: And there's a this is an important point to make and identify, because.
Classroom B: as as I think, fairly persuasively and and passionately argued in the chapter the research making that claims is typically been used in a way that disadvantages
Classroom B: women and and people who mensurate that don't identify as women.
Classroom B: So it's important to dispel some of those nits and and identify exactly what we know about the way that
Classroom B: beyond 24 h cycles potentially influence performance. So methodological issues. There's been a
Classroom B: bunch of weaknesses in typical research on the way that the menstrual cycle influences competition
Classroom B: based on your reading of the chapter. What are some examples of those methodological logic.
Classroom B: any thoughts
Classroom B: we've we've identified one that there's been substantial disagreement and sort of lack of clarity around even just basic
Classroom B: definitions.
Classroom B: What are some other methodological limitations
Classroom B: or some weaknesses in in the studies? The, you know, weaknesses, another way of thinking of, I guess, is the, you know, weaknesses in studies that have historically
Classroom B: demonstrated part of the performance decrements during the premesral phase of the ventral cycle.
Classroom B: So what what I'm suggesting is differences in in
Classroom B: measurement
Classroom B: across studies. And and yeah, you're absolutely right. We have substantial inconsistency. And it and it fits in 2 ways. Some of it is like just the different ways that cognitive performance is better.
Classroom B: And then and so we'll talk about that
Classroom B: another way in which
Classroom B: way in which measurement issues sort of muddy up some of these results.
Classroom B: And as a I think, a good way to start to demonstrate that general issue of of measuring cognitive performance. There are like. So there are many studies, and there are some studies that have actually been conducted fairly well that do demonstrate an impact on cognitive performance that fluctuates across the typical menstrual cycle.
Classroom B: And and the reason I sort of framed this as the
Classroom B: less problematic research is, is it frames things not in terms of the very simplistic and and
Classroom B: reductionist approach of
Classroom B: asking, how does cognitive performance influence like.
Classroom B: based on where somebody is in in a cycle, instead framing it in terms of connecting with levels of
Classroom B: estrogen and and and testosterone and other sex hormones. That, of course, does get sort of
Classroom B: broken down in terms of different phases. But one demonstration of somewhat reliable cognitive effects that that differ between phases
Classroom B: is is based on what are known as sexually dimorphic, cognitive
Classroom B: haters.
Classroom B: And so there's there's a terminology thing that needs to be fixed here, because sexually dimorphic and dimorphic itself is very similar to other concepts
Classroom B: in terms of just the the words, but they actually reflect different things. So when we talk about a sexually dimorphic behavior
Classroom B: what that means is that it's one that has been shown to reliantly differ between sales. And
Classroom B: so it's different from from dysmorphic. It's often confused with dysmorphic dysmorphic refers to somebody having like a
Classroom B: distorted
Classroom B: perspective on their own body. And it's different from gender dysphoria which is somebody being unhappy with the physical body that they're
Classroom B: so it's different. Second, when we're talking about something being dimorphic, we're just talking about a reliable difference
Classroom B: between mail and
Classroom B: addict.
Classroom B: This connects to another methodological issue. So let's let's, we need to be really careful about what we mean by reliable
Classroom B: in research. What we mean by reliable is a concept known as statistical significance.
Classroom B: And and what's something? Or
Classroom B: I know some people should be somewhat familiar with that term.
Classroom B: You didn't take assess with me. 0 off the book
Classroom B: knock a single people out.
Classroom B: But I I'm not. Yeah. Don't worry, Annie. I'm not gonna ask you to divide so just looking at it. But you wouldn't. You wouldn't encounter
Classroom B: Darkert out of me.
Classroom B: so that the idea of statistical significance is just like it's the general idea that you run a statical analysis, and when you find a difference between 2 groups in a sample, when you say that, it's statically significant, you're drawing the conclusion that it likely reflect
Classroom B: a different at the level of the population.
Classroom B: So when you take a sample of males and females and find it different.
Classroom B: if that difference is basically significant that provides some evidence that that
Classroom B: that difference exists in the full population beyond.
Classroom B: That's what we mean by reliant.
Classroom B: It says nothing about how big that difference is so 1 one major caveat to note is that when we're talking about these sexually dimorphic behaviors, we're talking about reliable differences. But they could be quite small.
Classroom B: and often with those small differences. That means that while it is a population level, detectable, different, there's substantial overlap.
Classroom B: So the the chapter outlines some details about the gives you the idea of effect size
Classroom B: and and like, you know, I like the example they give that like, you know. Hey, let's take something that is very clearly, sexually diagonic height.
Classroom B: very reliable. Acceptable difference on average, males are taller than.
Classroom B: and the effect size is massive, way bigger than anything you find in any psychological research.
Classroom B: Even then I'm sure you know a lot of females who are taller than a lot of males that you know, and
Classroom B: you have. You have that overlap. You have that variation.
Classroom B: even with very large population level here. So just noting that these secondary demographic behaviors themselves are also relatively small differences in cognitive performance
Classroom B: that said, there are some cognitive tasks that do show some level of sexual dimorphism
Classroom B: where we get some tasks that that tend to be what we call female advantage, and others that we tend to call male advantage, just meaning that
Classroom B: there's some tasks that females, on average, or for better act. There's some tasks on average that they answer.
Classroom B: just noting that caveat of substantial overlap small differences.
Classroom B: you know, they're technical.
Classroom B: And so the the chapter outlines a few examples. So, for example, females tend to on average, be better at at tasks involving sort of like verbal reasoning, and things like that
Classroom B: mail send me better and sort of spatial tasks and reasoning, and and those types of behaviors, again, on average relatively small.
Classroom B: but with that as a framework. What we can identify is that within females who have a typical menstrual cycle, we start to see some changes in those sexually dimorphic cognitive tasks based on the levels of estrogen expected at different phases.
Classroom B: So in the in the follicular phase where we tend to have lower levels of estrogen tasks that are typically female advantage. Get a little bit worse.
Classroom B: It has their typically male advantage. Get a little bit better. So remember, this is this is the changes all happening within individual meetings at different different levels on history.
Classroom B: So this, this is just saying that overall relative to their general performance, the female advantage. Tasks get a little bit worse. Male or advantage tasks get a little bit better, and then the high Sfm module phase we get the opposite
Classroom B: typical female advantage. Tasks become better.
Classroom B: typical male advantage, tasks become worse. Do you get that sort of inversion
Classroom B: across the the fluctuations within that cycle?
Classroom B: Okay, why am I spending so much time talking about that. This is a very good example of my point about differences in measurement.
Classroom B: The types of cognitive tasks we're talking about are very simple laboratory tasks.
Classroom B: So, for example, an example of how you can examine something like spatial reasoning within a laboratory task. And one of those common versions is something called a mental rotation task.
Classroom B: Where you look at 2 images of abstract, 3 dimensional shapes
Classroom B: that are rotated at different angles, and you have to determine as quickly as possible whether they're the same shape or different shapes
Classroom B: that make sense.
Classroom B: So if we're using that as our example of a task. On average, males perform better
Classroom B: fall.
Classroom B: and then, on average, a female, in the follicular phase, will do better than they would during the real phase.
Classroom B: So that's that's the level of specificity we're talking about.
Classroom B: How strongly do you think those types of laboratory tasks relate to real world performance in an appointment setting.
Classroom B: probably not not a ton. Right? So this is. This is a good demonstration of what Maya is talking about like differences in measurement. Yeah, you can find these detectable differences in these very constrained artificial laboratory tasks. But if you actually examine for example, measurements of productivity in an employment setting.
Classroom B: Not only is there no difference between males and females.
Classroom B: there's no difference for females at different stages of the ventral cycle.
Classroom B: so it really depends how you measure performance.
Classroom B: And when you measure performance in ways that are sort of practically meaningful.
Classroom B: you don't really find any differences.
Classroom B: And I mean, this is important, right, because it it demonstrates how clear an error is to look at. Say, a task that says, Hey, there's, you know, in these laboratory tasks we can find a decrease in performance in certain phases of the menstrual cycle. And then draw the conclusion that means that females will will perform worse in a in a work setting.
Classroom B: As a result.
Classroom B: it doesn't hold that's not supported immediately.
Classroom B: The types of cognitive processes that you're examining are at such a level of precision in a laboratory that they just do not translate up to real world work.
Classroom B: run the same thing in academic setting, because there's no influence on academic performance across the cycle.
Classroom B: The other measurement issue. That, I I think, is not quite the same as what Maya is talking about, but is is a, you know. Still, a good time to bring it up is, and this is like is is to me. It's kind of shocking that this was the
Classroom B: common methodology. Most methodologies examining both.
Classroom B: you know, performance and and just general experiences specifically within the pre-ventural phase of menstrual cycle, have typically employed what are called retrospective measurements.
Classroom B: Does anyone know what I mean when I talk? When I, you know, identify something as a retrospective measurement?
Classroom B: It essentially means that when I'm when I'm measuring experiences or or performance across different stages of of time. In this case, across different stages of ventral cycle, I rely on people to Emory.
Classroom B: so I don't go and actually measure performance at different times the typical retrospective measurement would be like, I would ask participants, how productive do you think you were during this phase, this phase, this phase, and this phase.
Classroom B: So you're relying on people's memory.
Classroom B: And it's only relatively recently that people are recognized that it probably measured to be what are called prospective design, where you have to get people to give those reports, or, better yet, to actually measure performance
Classroom B: at different times
Classroom B: the major issue with retrospect designs. It's it's a measurement strategy that is going to very much introduce expectations that are based on general social live States.
Classroom B: There's a general social that we already have, the sort of social expectation
Classroom B: that females are going to be cognitively impaired at certain cases of their escal.
Classroom B: If those thoughts and ideas get internalized, that's going to come up in retrospective measurements.
Classroom B: even if on the more precise prospective measurements we find.
Classroom B: And I. I really like one of the studies identified in the in the chapter where they kind of a clever design, where they gave. They got emails to give retrospective measurements of their own experiences and performances, and then they got mails to speculate about
Classroom B: retrospective experiences like what would a typical female experience across the different phases. And it's like
Classroom B: perfectly correlated
Classroom B: suggesting that what's driving that similarity is expectations based on social biases rather than any actual different.
Classroom B: because those Rebecca designs don't find differences, or at the very least they find differences that are much smaller
Classroom B: questions or thoughts about that.
Classroom B: What are some other methodological issues with this sort of history of of menstrual cycle research.
Classroom B: Jaren, to clarify your question when you talk about individual identity, are you talking about? Are you talking about like gender identity, or or do you have something else in mind?
Classroom B: Okay? Yeah, I mean, so that's that's sort of why I'm using the the female language here to just
Classroom B: to
Classroom B: restrict the conversation rather than based on on gender identity, specifically based on whether or not the person
Classroom B: you know, goes through a ventral cycle
Classroom B: that make sense.
Classroom B: Yeah, because at a biological level, in terms of the actual like changes and hormones. That's that's ultimately what matters right?
Classroom B: Expectations might differ slightly, but you know what I would see, what I would identify as an unfortunate reality. If it's somebody who
Classroom B: dozens
Classroom B: whose gender identity is inconsistent with their biological sex, the biases and stereotypes and expectations that they experience are generally tied to their biological sex.
Classroom B: Okay? So trying to push us towards some other methodological problems based on, you know, your experience and knowledge of of
Classroom B: psychological research methods.
Classroom B: how well are you able to establish cause and effect
Classroom B: and and make the claim that it is changes in best recycle phases that cause changes of cognitive performance
Classroom B: in terms of research methods. What's the gold standard for a stat between causing Tip.
Classroom B: you'd run into experiments right?
Classroom B: You need to manipulate some independent, variable, and then and then randomly assign people to groups and then observe any potential differences on a dependent variable
Classroom B: can't experimentally manipulate.
Classroom B: And it's real things.
Classroom B: So the research is inherently correlational. And given that we've just identified a bunch of biases and expectation effects.
Classroom B: we have very plausible
Classroom B: third, variable explanations for any potential difference.
Classroom B: So just the the nature of the topic makes it such that you can't
Classroom B: really rotten experiments.
Classroom B: So you're you're restricted to correlations which come with our set of of limitations on the type of
Classroom B: draw
Classroom B: provides a more
Classroom B: a more restricted and more nuanced analysis.
Classroom B: Someone familiar with the concept of publication bias.
Classroom B: It's a it, I mean, it's a general problem in in most scientific research, and especially psychological research that extends beyond this research on on menstrual cycles. But so publication bias refers to the
Classroom B: general
Classroom B: binding
Classroom B: that it is difficult, if not possible, to publish what are called dull results.
Classroom B: and a null result is just one where a study does not like
Classroom B: does not find effect.
Classroom B: I,
Classroom B: and it's I mean, we don't have the time to to describe the exact
Classroom B: reasons behind this or the history behind it, but it's enough of a problem that there there are very direct attempts being made by publishers, journals, and things like that to prevent that problem.
Classroom B: So, for example, there's a
Classroom B: still uncommon relatively new but growing type of publication model known as a registered report.
Classroom B: So the the typical model of publication is, you run some studies, you write it up into a paper, they submit it to a journal, it gets reviewed, and then, if it's good enough, it gets published.
Classroom B: I've
Classroom B: the the shift in a registered report is what you do is you write a proposal with predicted results. You submit back.
Classroom B: It's reviewed, based on the quality of the methods and the importance of the question.
Classroom B: Then, once it's accepted, you run the study or studies.
Classroom B: and the agreement is as long as you you conduct those studies according to the high quality methods that have been approved, regardless of what happens, it gets published.
Classroom B: So even if you found no effects, no differences.
Classroom B: So it's a very deliberate effort to avoid this issue of publication bias. Sometimes publication bias is also sometimes referred to as the file for call book.
Classroom B: Reflecting the the likely scenario that any researcher probably has an entire file drawer full of experiments or studies. They've run everything
Classroom B: because you can't publish them. It's not the research. It's fault. Girls won't publish them.
Classroom B: so they just sit there, and nobody ever hears about them.
Classroom B: In the context of this, that means that remember, the whole goal here was to run studies, to determine the ways in which menstrual phases influence cognition.
Classroom B: So based on publication bias, what gets published and what gets put in the file drawer. If you find a difference.
Classroom B: you guys published
Classroom B: if you don't.
Classroom B: it doesn't.
Classroom B: Which means that the the idea of publication bias has made it such that historically, the evidence seems to suggest, based on what's published. That, there are reliable impairment across different phases, central cycle. But that's because it's ignoring the likely much more overwhelming body of evidence. Nothing that there's not
Classroom B: because that word just doesn't get published.
Classroom B: So that's just a major systemic issue. That's that's going to want to be resolved by by engaging the types of of changes to
Classroom B: academic publication and scientific publication that
Classroom B: that you know that people are starting to engage in moving slowly. But it's happening. So Jeremy were saying that you know, politics and culture influences room science as a whole. And you're sort of taking back that statement. I wouldn't take those statement back. I would just I could. I don't say room science as a whole. There are still many people doing
Classroom B: good high quality science. But those social, political, cultural, influences, constraints do at least have a negative impact on on scientific publication.
Classroom B: But going going into that conversation in in depth is like a whole other.
Classroom B: not not super share. Sure where that conversation is is going. I mean, we'll
Classroom B: well, yeah, maybe maybe we'll not get into that at that point, depending on which direction that might be going.
Classroom B: Want to keep the conversation. Yeah, nice and respectful.
Classroom B: Yeah. So I mean, ultimately, what we're what we're sort of identifying here is that we have this.
Classroom B: this social like this very heavily, socially biased perspective
Classroom B: that's generated a a large number of myths around
Classroom B: the the female menstrual cycle. And and as I, as we've been noting, it's like the the conclusions that are drawn from that very bias research are generally at the
Classroom B: disadvantage to the disadvantage of of else that's that's unfortunately tends to go.
Classroom B: and it's just the.
Classroom B: you know. I think the most important thing for anyone to do as a scientist is to just follow the evidence.
Classroom B: You you should draw conclusions and board perspectives based on the the evidence available and the evidence available
Classroom B: very strongly refutes the idea that there is any cognitive impairment at a realistic practical level
Classroom B: that occurs at any
Classroom B: stage of the Metro cycle.
Classroom B: The only difference is like the other methodological issue that we've identified is the fact that there's that substantial individual variation. So there are some cases in which, in order to get very serious changes in food, cognitive performance and things like that as identified in that. That quotation in the chapter that it was published in the Lancet, that you know, they're sort of like one of the basically top medical journals those should be considered
Classroom B: abnormal medical cases that need treatment. So there's something, you know, called a pre-manceral dysphoric disorder.
Classroom B: Pmdb, and that's something where it's like this is, look at. This is actually a psychological issue where people were females in the premedural phase will experience extremely lower mood consistent with like, make your depressive disorder.
Classroom B: That's something that should be medically treated
Classroom B: rather than treating that as something that's that's just like going to happen to everybody, and as a result, we should, you know, not allow
Classroom B: they'd keep their different various forms of employment group of emails.
Classroom B: That's not the direction we should go.
Classroom B: because that's not what the evidence says.
Classroom B: We know that. Some studies can demonstrate that expectations of of cognitive
Classroom B: performance. Documents can lead to cognitive performance documents. But even that's a bit of a caveat there. So a lot of the a lot of the recent studies coming out examining this idea of stereotype threat and the expectation that you're going to be poorly to
Classroom B: for performance. That's actually starting to get questioned a little bit largely based on on the finding that many of those original studies prove to be difficult to replicate in a lot of cases. So the the impact of stereo type thread might actually be much
Classroom B: less.
Classroom B: Then then we one slot. So just just a grain of salt in my.
Classroom B: which is, I actually think that's a positive thing, and it's just that people who might be victims of stereotype threat are actually much more resilient.
Classroom B: The face of stereotype threat than once thought.
Classroom B: We should, of course, still do what we can to
Classroom B: to eliminate those stereotypes
Classroom B: for a variety of reasons.
Classroom B: any thoughts, questions, clarifications, before we start to summarize
Classroom B: right off
Classroom B: ultimately, if there's any lesson from this conversation is that
Classroom B: the quality of science matters
Classroom B: because the the quality of science impacts perception that it impacts. As a result people.
Classroom B: it impacts people's experience how people are treated.
Classroom B: Okay? So
Classroom B: I'm going to provide some feedback and and suggestions on
Classroom B: case study drafts.
Classroom B: Like we.
Classroom B: I'm scheduling myself to do that Friday and into Saturday if necessary.
Classroom B: So that's just so, you know, when to expect some of that feedback and
Classroom B: construction incorporate into the final paper
Classroom B: again. Just what you know. What I'll do is I'll I'll go through the same rubric that I'll be sick to evaluate the final paper and just provide some
Classroom B: broad level back at
Classroom B: to those categories. Provide some potential suggestions that you can work towards a final
Classroom B: version of it.
Classroom B: That sound, reasonable.
Classroom B: awesome. Well, in that case, have an awesome rest of the day, and and a good weekend weekend if I don't see you
Classroom B: as always, you know how to reach me.
Ashley Wray: Thank you.